Pollinating

[Arjibuh]

Does anyone else here get more fruit when they hand pollinate the flowers? I know they are "self pollinating", however I have been getting dozens of flowers, but only one berry. I have tried everything, and now I am down to this. They sit in a greenhouse with no wind to move them, I never do, so could they just need a little budge? I am going to hand pollinate them, Ill let you know if it works. Anyone else have experience with this?

[taobass]

I don't have any first hand experience as my plants are still too young for fruiting but have you tried giving them a shake?  I forget where I read this (may have been here but likely another gardening forum, my apologies for a lack of reference) that shaking them gently helps with the successful pollination rate.  Don't shake too hard of course!    Also, I've heard of watering from above the plant (so water droplets drip off the flower) can help with some self pollinating plants, though not sure if this would work for miracle fruit.  Let me know how it works and good luck!

[Arjibuh]

I also heard about shaking, but not sure where. Its the recomendation for citrus also. The problem with MF flowers is that they go from closed to brown in hours, so if I am at work I might miss that window. So far I hand pollinated, shaked (shook?), and have a misting that is already dripping over them, so I will see. I started pollinating even before the flowers opened, and saw lots of dust blow off of many of them, then went to the next (and the next 20 or so). I am still dabbing them with the q-tip and will untill I see fruit darn it.

I think it just might be lack of light. Last summer I had over 30 berries, with hundreds of flowers even now, I hope to get more this summer with more light.

[MuffinMan]

Hey guys. I've had my plant for a few years now and pollination has always been a problem, partly because I live in an inner city apartment (no insects to pollinate). I've always had hundreds of flowers but only one or two berries. I read the posts about self-pollination so I decided to try a few things. I gave it a good feed of fertiliser and shook the thing a few times a day, but no luck. Then I happened on a forum about pollinating tomato flowers, which are also self-pollinating. One of the techniques suggested is to use an electric toothbrush i.e. 'buzz pollination", mimicking a bee. I gave it a try a couple of weeks back and tonight I've just counted 38 berries on their way. I can't guarantee it's the cause, but the circumstantial evidence is hard to deny. My technique: take off the head of the toothbrush as the swirling head could damage the flowers. Try to get the flowers pointing downward, then hold the toothbrush tip against the flower. Pollen should fall down. If you're lucky some will hit the stigma, but just to make sure, rub the tip of the (pollen-coated) toothbrush over it. It may feel weird and strangely intimate, but miracles may come. Good luck!

[Arjibuh]

Is that much different than what I tried, rubbing a q-tip on the inards while the dust poofs out, then moving on to the next flower? I think my issue may be sun because last summer I had an abundance. Where are you located?

[MuffinMan]

I'm in an inner city apartment in Melbourne, Australia. The plant is in a self-watering pot, kept inside. It does get plenty of morning and afternoon light. Like I said in my previous post, I'm not certain that the buzz pollination is the reason why I've got fruit now, but it's my best theory. I've tried paint brush and shake pollination, neither of which worked when the plant set flowers about six weeks ago. Other possible reasons 1. I fertilised about four weeks ago 2. I'm spraying the plant with mist regularly, ncluding just before pollination 3. The plant is reaching maturity.

[Arjibuh]

Another option is that since you guys are in the throws (sp?) of summer down there you are getting the proper lighting. I got dozens in my midsummer, but can't get barely anything now. Looks like I might need more artificial light.

At what point in the flowering did you pollinate? When they were open? Browning?

[MuffinMan]

It could be just that it's summer, although the first set of flowers that produced no fruit was in December. Too many variables to deal with, really. I tried the pollination process over about three days with the flowers at varying stages from 'just opened' to 'turning brown'. If the stigma was still white/alive then I gave it a try. Unfortunately I couldn't say which days or stages worked best. I'll try to approach it more scientifically when the next set of flowers opens (which should be tomorrow).

[Arjibuh]

Hmm, mine turn brown within hours of opening. That might be part of it. I did the same thing, but still no fruit. I will keep this updated though or when I get some more light, artificial or natural.

[taobass]

Interesting idea with the electric toothbrush Muffin Man!  I'm also in a small city apartment growing under mostly artificial light (some sun sneaks in the windows but Winter in the upper Midwestern US isn't exactly known for being too sunny).  May I ask what you fertilized with ~4 weeks ago?  I know there can be some issue with flowering/fruiting based on fertilizer (I think Arjibuh has documented that pretty well for us here) but I thought it was that higher N fertilizers kept the flowers from forming at all.  Based on my experience with tomatoes, I know that not getting 8-10 hrs a day of direct sun, irregular watering, nighttime temps not getting low enough or getting too low, and various soil conditions, including insect infestation can cause flower drops.  I'm not sure if any of these are the case with miracle fruit but I think it would be great if someone were to study the affect of light cycle/intensity on fruiting in mature plants. Very interesting stuff and it would be excellent to get to the bottom of!  Keep us updated Arjibuh about what you're finding.  Hopefully my 3 plants will keep growing vigorously so that I can soon help out with the study as well! 

[Arjibuh]

Thanks, those are some interesting thoughts. I just discovered another fruit, so that makes two. However, I have over 150 flowers on that same tree, and about 30 on another tree (with no fruit). I am tempted to think it is the light, as you said is the case with tomatoes. I think hand pollination might also have something to do with it. I have never thought of nighttime temps being a factor. If they are from tropical regions, wouldn't the nighttime temps still be in the 70's? This last summer they fruited well, daytime highs in the 80's-90's, nights in the 60's 70's. Now they are always in the 70's due to winter and artificial heating.

Interestingly, my greenhouse shut off last night and was in the 50's throughout. Today I notice another fruit beginning. Coincidence?

[silenceisgod]

 I don't know about tropical plants, but some citrus will only fruit after experiencing a drop in temperature followed by a warm spell. It's possible the enviornment of MF has a very short "winter" that signals the plant to fruit.

[ChicosAStar]

I found some weird information. Surprisingly the high for West Africa today was 74. Perhaps someone could do a test. They would need three plants that are known to produce fruit (Control, Hot, and Cold). Keep the control at a constant temperature (70 degrees), keep the Hot at a constant temperature (Especially during the night), and a cold one (Keep normal during the day, but cold at night. See how they are affected over a week or twos time.

[Arjibuh]

Ill try it. I have two flowering trees, Ill take one in my house. It gets down to 60 at night, 70's in the day.

I see that on the citrus. We had freezing temps which almost killed them. I took them in, and they started fruiting immeidatly, in winter. They usually fruit in summer. Citrus comes from a different region, but it might be something.

[Arjibuh]

Supposedly Miracle Fruit are from Ghana, and here is the winter weather report...sounds pretty nice actually. these are essentially the condition in my greenhouse, except into the 80's in the daytime, and low 70's at night.

http://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/businesstraveler/tenday/GHXX0001?

I also realized, on the night my greenhouse shut off we had a sunny day, so it might still be the sun.